http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/ Business, Better. Since 2005 Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:33:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-43888 Kevin S Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:46:34 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/#comment-43888 I've been studying California's water system and concluded that it requires over 3000 kWh/acre-foot just to lift water from the Central Valley to the reservoirs in the hills above the L.A. basin, PLUS the energy required to move that water sideways 400+ miles from the pumping stations near Tracy to the uphill pumps. This puts the total energy required on par with Pablo's figure for desalination, which is high compared to some of the latest desalination plants. So desalination uses less energy than the current water system and offers a potentially unlimited water source with no susceptibility to drought or supply/demand pressures, and at competitive prices for urban users. Conservation and water recycling are obviously desirable, but if we want an unlimited water source there are trillions of gallons sitting off the California coast just waiting to be tapped. All the fuss over water here represents a lack of will and vision, not an actual lack of water. I've been studying California's water system and concluded that it requires over 3000 kWh/acre-foot just to lift water from the Central Valley to the reservoirs in the hills above the L.A. basin, PLUS the energy required to move that water sideways 400+ miles from the pumping stations near Tracy to the uphill pumps. This puts the total energy required on par with Pablo's figure for desalination, which is high compared to some of the latest desalination plants. So desalination uses less energy than the current water system and offers a potentially unlimited water source with no susceptibility to drought or supply/demand pressures, and at competitive prices for urban users. Conservation and water recycling are obviously desirable, but if we want an unlimited water source there are trillions of gallons sitting off the California coast just waiting to be tapped. All the fuss over water here represents a lack of will and vision, not an actual lack of water.

]]> http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-11904 crazegreen@hotmail.com Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:01:26 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/#comment-11904 There is an awesome video on Green Energy TV about Desalination. Their site is www.greenenergytv.com and I think it was done by GE if you want to check it out. There is an awesome video on Green Energy TV about Desalination. Their site is http://www.greenenergytv.com and I think it was done by GE if you want to check it out.

]]> http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-11903 slanted tom Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:40:31 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/#comment-11903 It appears that the siting of a desalinization facility will determine which of these excellent plans will produce the energy to remove salt from ocean water. Wind power might be the choice at a site with a constant sea breeze. Or the solution might be geo-thermal, or wave generators, solar, tidal, or some other energy source at sites with other characteristics. Will there be desalinization siting firms who can do the cost/benefit analysis of several completely different energy systems systems and find the cheapest or most robust or select by some other criteria? It appears that the siting of a desalinization facility will determine which of these excellent plans will produce the energy to remove salt from ocean water. Wind power might be the choice at a site with a constant sea breeze. Or the solution might be geo-thermal, or wave generators, solar, tidal, or some other energy source at sites with other characteristics.
Will there be desalinization siting firms who can do the cost/benefit analysis of several completely different energy systems systems and find the cheapest or most robust or select by some other criteria?

]]> http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-11902 Adam Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:46:20 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/#comment-11902 If it can provide enough energy at the site, I could see either wave or tidal power as 2 other complements to power desalinization plants via renewable energy. If it can provide enough energy at the site, I could see either wave or tidal power as 2 other complements to power desalinization plants via renewable energy.

]]> http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-11901 Tayson Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:19:40 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/#comment-11901 I have precisely zero sympathy for people in places like Phoenix, El Paso, or even Southern California who complain about water supplies. If you live in an overpopulated desert suburb you need to alter your lifestyle to atone for that fact. Golf courses, lawns, and a care-free attitude toward water are absurdities in those climates and people need to accept that. Frankly, I think the best way to make that happen, perhaps the only way, is to STOP subsidizing the price of water in desert climes. Right now massive government projects had delivered unrealistically cheap water. Triple or quadruple the price of the stuff and you will start to see behavioral change that are needed... I have precisely zero sympathy for people in places like Phoenix, El Paso, or even Southern California who complain about water supplies. If you live in an overpopulated desert suburb you need to alter your lifestyle to atone for that fact. Golf courses, lawns, and a care-free attitude toward water are absurdities in those climates and people need to accept that. Frankly, I think the best way to make that happen, perhaps the only way, is to STOP subsidizing the price of water in desert climes. Right now massive government projects had delivered unrealistically cheap water. Triple or quadruple the price of the stuff and you will start to see behavioral change that are needed…

]]> http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-11900 ecogal Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:14:36 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/#comment-11900 To make the process less energy intensive, I'm imagining geothermal + large solar concentrators to heat the water, recapturing the heat, and optimizing pumps for maximum efficiency and powering them with wind. To make the process less energy intensive, I’m imagining geothermal + large solar concentrators to heat the water, recapturing the heat, and optimizing pumps for maximum efficiency and powering them with wind.

]]> http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-11899 ecogal Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:43:07 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/#comment-11899 To make the process less energy intensive, I'm imagining geothermal + large solar concentrators to heat the water, recapturing the heat, and optimizing pumps for maximum efficiency and powering them with wind. To make the process less energy intensive, I’m imagining geothermal + large solar concentrators to heat the water, recapturing the heat, and optimizing pumps for maximum efficiency and powering them with wind.

]]> http://www.triplepundit.com/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/comment-page-1/#comment-11898 Josh Miller Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:27:52 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2007/08/askpablo-desalination-and-the-water-energy-relationship/#comment-11898 Desalination is indeed energy-intensive, but it definitely has its place in the world. The fact is that water supplies are being stretched to their limits, prompting communities to look at less and less attractive source waters to fulfill their needs. In Australia, people will soon be drinking recycled wastewater, and in El Paso, Texas, the water district has begun desalinating brackish well water. The shell and tube condenser idea is novel, especially the way it's employed in Southern India, but it's not applicable in colder climes such as the Bay Area. Reverse osmosis membrane technology is ~50 years old, and there are essentially just a few ways to desalinate water. Instead of knocking traditional desalination as being too energy intensive, why not concentrate on using innovative, renewable energy sources to power the pumps and recover as much energy as possible within the system to both save energy and increase the overall recovery of clean water through the system. Desalination is indeed energy-intensive, but it definitely has its place in the world.
The fact is that water supplies are being stretched to their limits, prompting communities to look at less and less attractive source waters to fulfill their needs. In Australia, people will soon be drinking recycled wastewater, and in El Paso, Texas, the water district has begun desalinating brackish well water. The shell and tube condenser idea is novel, especially the way it’s employed in Southern India, but it’s not applicable in colder climes such as the Bay Area. Reverse osmosis membrane technology is ~50 years old, and there are essentially just a few ways to desalinate water. Instead of knocking traditional desalination as being too energy intensive, why not concentrate on using innovative, renewable energy sources to power the pumps and recover as much energy as possible within the system to both save energy and increase the overall recovery of clean water through the system.

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