Comments on: The Path to Lower Oil Demand and Gas Prices: A Green Vehicle Revolution Is a Much Better Route Than a Global Financial Crisis http://www.triplepundit.com/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/ Business, Better. Since 2005 Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:33:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jon Gelbardhttp://www.triplepundit.com/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-10151 Jon Gelbard Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:43:15 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/#comment-10151 Mike - thanks for your comment. In martial arts, we don't expect to go straight from white belt to black belt all at once. There are steps to take along the way. In the same way, I absolutely love all things local and public transport (which can be aided by things like a distance tax, MUCH more funding for public transportation, and the like). However, right now, our policymakers are focused on spending billions on a bailout for the auto industry, and a first step is to make sure that it is as smartly and forwardly-thinking green as possible. That said, our public transport systems do need a lot of work. It is ridiculous, for example, that while the Bay Area passed $1 billion for electric car infrastructure this year, our train system (BART) stops running at midnight. Without an easy public transport choice for getting home, weekend night-time drives over the Bay Bridge are terribly harrowing, full of dangerous drunk drivers (I've seen several horrible accidents and almost been hit myself by swerving cars several times)? This is truly a travesty. When I visit New York, I can always take a train home. Sadly, the Bay Area - for all its touted greenness - will NOT be a truly green metro area until its citizens have public transport options for getting home across the bridge at all hours. On that note, who wants to start the all-night BART ballot measure? If we can get $1 billion passed for electric vehicle infrastructure, surely we can get the $$ needed to run 2AM and 4AM trains between SF and the east bay - if nothing else, at least on weekend nights! Mike – thanks for your comment.
In martial arts, we don’t expect to go straight from white belt to black belt all at once. There are steps to take along the way. In the same way, I absolutely love all things local and public transport (which can be aided by things like a distance tax, MUCH more funding for public transportation, and the like). However, right now, our policymakers are focused on spending billions on a bailout for the auto industry, and a first step is to make sure that it is as smartly and forwardly-thinking green as possible.
That said, our public transport systems do need a lot of work. It is ridiculous, for example, that while the Bay Area passed $1 billion for electric car infrastructure this year, our train system (BART) stops running at midnight. Without an easy public transport choice for getting home, weekend night-time drives over the Bay Bridge are terribly harrowing, full of dangerous drunk drivers (I’ve seen several horrible accidents and almost been hit myself by swerving cars several times)? This is truly a travesty.
When I visit New York, I can always take a train home. Sadly, the Bay Area – for all its touted greenness – will NOT be a truly green metro area until its citizens have public transport options for getting home across the bridge at all hours.
On that note, who wants to start the all-night BART ballot measure? If we can get $1 billion passed for electric vehicle infrastructure, surely we can get the $$ needed to run 2AM and 4AM trains between SF and the east bay – if nothing else, at least on weekend nights!

]]> By: urbanworkbenchhttp://www.triplepundit.com/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-10150 urbanworkbench Thu, 01 Jan 2009 13:33:18 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/#comment-10150 Personal transportation is unsustainable at the rates we experience now for at least these reasons: <br /> - The production of passenger vehicles uses almost as much energy as the vehicle will use during its lifetime.<br /> - We cannot expect that roads will be maintained at levels that will be able to support the speeds and traffic loads we currently experience.<p> Your "one stone's throw" should be re-localization and forget about investing in a short term fix, which will passify the masses and put all of us further behind the eight ball.<p> There is a reason that humanity has not experienced the convenience of the past couple of generations of westerners - oil. The population of the world has quadrupled in the past 150 years - should everyone be able to drive? Is that the end goal here? Is economic collapse and energy descent not deserved after we prop it up with so much unfounded credit and false markets. There will likely be hardship, broken supply chains, food and water scarcity as well as political turmoil and many displaced persons.</p></p> Personal transportation is unsustainable at the rates we experience now for at least these reasons:
- The production of passenger vehicles uses almost as much energy as the vehicle will use during its lifetime.
- We cannot expect that roads will be maintained at levels that will be able to support the speeds and traffic loads we currently experience.

Your “one stone’s throw” should be re-localization and forget about investing in a short term fix, which will passify the masses and put all of us further behind the eight ball.

There is a reason that humanity has not experienced the convenience of the past couple of generations of westerners – oil. The population of the world has quadrupled in the past 150 years – should everyone be able to drive? Is that the end goal here? Is economic collapse and energy descent not deserved after we prop it up with so much unfounded credit and false markets. There will likely be hardship, broken supply chains, food and water scarcity as well as political turmoil and many displaced persons.

]]> By: Jon Gelbardhttp://www.triplepundit.com/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-10149 Jon Gelbard Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:00:46 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/#comment-10149 Thanks for your comment Tom. Rather than arguing that technology is 'the' quick fix, I'm pointing out key ways that this type of green business solution can solve so many of our other major current challenges - economy, energy and climate - with one stone's throw. It's sure a heck of a better path to putting money in our pockets than those rebate checks - which in many cases just went to peoples' credit card bills and then 'poof', were gone. It would have been much better if the 'stimulus' checks came as credits/rebates towards energy efficiency retrofit materials/services, energystar appliances, solar installations, and other such efficient and green solutions. This way of issuing stimulus checks would create a positive feedback in which the the checks continue to generate savings long after they are initially spent - a much better bang for the taxpayer's buck! Will savings generate an unintended negative feedback of greater consumption and resource use? If you read the earlier post that the quote you cite comes from, you'll note that I list 'spending' money saved via efficient technologies as just one option for what to do with it. Other options are SAVING the money for ourselves and our families, or GIVING to support charitable causes. In my case, it's the latter two that I focus on, as I'm not big on 'stuff'. From what I'm reading, the current economic crisis is generating a rise in savings for the first time in quite awhile - a hopeful trend. I certainly agree that major behavior changes are important - really we do need a whole new way of viewing our relationship to the natural world, or mother nature will probably show us the hard way (a good read of Diamond's 'Collapse' demonstrates what happens when civilizations fail to make the needed changes...) These are all pieces to the puzzle of the change that we need to see, and I think that being aware of all the wonderful benefits of clean tech will help drive behavior changes - especially by emphasizing related value judgments: that if we can get from place A to place B in vehicles that generate far less emissions and cost much less to operate, than not to do so is just 'wrong'. And we need to take those values to the voting booth to make sure that we elect leaders who make much smarter decisions than our leaders (and citizens) have been for awhile now... Just a few thoughts in response... Thanks for your comment Tom.
Rather than arguing that technology is ‘the’ quick fix, I’m pointing out key ways that this type of green business solution can solve so many of our other major current challenges – economy, energy and climate – with one stone’s throw.
It’s sure a heck of a better path to putting money in our pockets than those rebate checks – which in many cases just went to peoples’ credit card bills and then ‘poof’, were gone. It would have been much better if the ‘stimulus’ checks came as credits/rebates towards energy efficiency retrofit materials/services, energystar appliances, solar installations, and other such efficient and green solutions. This way of issuing stimulus checks would create a positive feedback in which the the checks continue to generate savings long after they are initially spent – a much better bang for the taxpayer’s buck!
Will savings generate an unintended negative feedback of greater consumption and resource use? If you read the earlier post that the quote you cite comes from, you’ll note that I list ‘spending’ money saved via efficient technologies as just one option for what to do with it. Other options are SAVING the money for ourselves and our families, or GIVING to support charitable causes. In my case, it’s the latter two that I
focus on, as I’m not big on ‘stuff’. From what I’m reading, the current economic crisis is generating a rise in savings for the first time in quite awhile – a hopeful trend.
I certainly agree that major behavior changes are important – really we do need a whole new way of viewing our relationship to the natural world, or mother nature will probably show us the hard way (a good read of Diamond’s ‘Collapse’ demonstrates what happens when civilizations fail to make the needed changes…)
These are all pieces to the puzzle of the change that we need to see, and I think that being aware of all the wonderful benefits of clean tech will help drive behavior changes – especially by emphasizing related value judgments: that if we can get from place A to place B in vehicles that generate far less emissions and cost much less to operate, than not to do so is just ‘wrong’. And we need to take those values to the voting booth to make sure that we elect leaders who make much smarter decisions than our leaders (and citizens) have been for awhile now…
Just a few thoughts in response…

]]> By: Tom Steigerhttp://www.triplepundit.com/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-10148 Tom Steiger Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:21:57 +0000 http://www.triplepundit.com/wordpress/2008/12/the-path-to-lower-oil-demand-and-gas-prices-a-green-vehicle-revolution-is-a-much-better-route-than-a-global-financial-crisis/#comment-10148 Articles like this drive me nuts. I don't disagree with the idea of green vehicles, but the rosy outcomes offered by the "magic pill" of new technologies is typical of short sighted, quick fix, too often American perspective. For the rest of my comment see: http://steigercounter.blogspot.com/2008/12/technological-fixes-are-only-part-of.html Articles like this drive me nuts. I don’t disagree with the idea of green vehicles, but the rosy outcomes offered by the “magic pill” of new technologies is typical of short sighted, quick fix, too often American perspective. For the rest of my comment see: http://steigercounter.blogspot.com/2008/12/technological-fixes-are-only-part-of.html

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